“…has illustrated that even among those who say they care for social issues, men believe they can do what they like…”

Zirzamin talks with Torang Abedian, the director of “Not An Illusion”.

Zirzamin: Torang, thanks for accepting our request for an interview. Can you tell us little about yourself and “Not An Illusion“.

Torang Abedian: It’s my pleasure. I quite like Zirzamin, the magazine and also the actual “zirzamin/basement“since usually great works come out of these places all over the world.

Well, it is not easy to talk about oneself as it is possible to end up saying just what pleases others. I was born in Tehran and raised during the revolution and the years of the Iran/ Iraq war. I don’t really miss that period. As a teenager I went to London with my parents where I stayed while they returned to Iran. At first I studied math and science at college, but soon and all on my own I dropped these subjects and went to study photography, communication and design in order to follow my dream of film-making as a means of storytelling. It was a hard but interesting period: in Iran we developed a real self-censorship mode and I really had to work on myself through these years. This process is still going on.

I have a BA (hon) from the University of Westminster in London where I made short films, went to script writing workshops, film production and also worked on projects as a photographer and assistant director.

I moved back to live in Tehran sometime early in 2003. In 2006, I was selected as part of the mentoring program for the field of Documentary Film at The Hospital Club in London. In autumn 2008, I went to Vienna where the major part of the post-production of “Not An Illusion“(“Na Yek Tavahom” in Persian) took place.

“Not An Illusion“ is the real story of the alternative genre musicians of Iran, and I specifically say alternative and not underground because these musicians want to be visible. But they make a different kind of music. They try hard and make an effort in some crazy and exhausting conditions without any support. “Not An Illusion“ tries to convey the complications of life in Iran by following the lives of a few musicians while focusing on one central character.

The life of Sara, the main character who was a champion gymnast disabled [sic] due to an accident – and her fellow musician friends struggling to perform and make their music – represent the process we are going through as a nation in an Iranian society torn between modernity and tradition. As there is more crackdowns on freedom of expression, they become the symbol of the younger generation of Iran, and throughout the film the lyrics of their song become the allegory of the times. “Not An Illusion” is my first feature length documentary and it is a human story, a film about resistance, hope and struggle to reach a dream; it is about the importance of music and cultural freedom. It is about resistance not giving up – a universal story.

Zirzamin: Interesting. Why did you choose this theme?

Abedian: I am a music lover. So in this film I brought my passion for movies and music together. As music is the most direct and the most natural form of art, it is also said its appearance disappears soon [sic], so it needs a lot of attention in general. I wanted to capture this.  I mean, with an instrument or a voice box a musician expresses feelings and fantasies, can communicate his/her thoughts and feelings about the world, life and societies. It is memorizing.

When I was growing up in Tehran, music was banned. Even carrying a musical instrument on the street was difficult. We would get arrested for having a tape in our bag for example. Even today, music and performance or concerts are limited or suppressed in Iran: there are no supports or we are put in a tight framework in our society for a very long time. Through our history, musicians have suffered a lot. Musicians are told to make a kind of music that fits within a special framework and according to certain interpretation of our traditions and religion. This has been the case in general throughout our history, but after the revolution it has been much more apparent and intense and there are strange rules and regulations.

When these issues exist in a society, it shows that people in that society are being limited to act freely in their lives. As a performing artist or a musician on stage, they must not express themselves as they wish and are obliged to behave in certain dictated ways.

These limitations target music in general but if you are an alternative genre musician or an “alternative thinker” and especially a female singer or artist in our society, it gets much more complicated. (This has been the general case throughout our history anyway but more intense after the revolution in 1979)

So by focusing on one part of our society, the field of music or alternative music and life of one musician, I wanted to reflect on the bigger picture.

Also rock music is full of energy and through its lyrics it is often ahead of the time; it talks about what’s going on in a society. There is an example of one or two songs by Piccolo in the film illustrating this.  Iran is the land of poetry. We use poems in our daily lives much more often than any other nation. It is in our culture. The use of Hafez and Rumi or other classical Persian poetry in alternative music is very interesting and unique and it also says a lot about us and our society.

When following the story of alternative music and Sara, I could capture the changes in our society – the ups and downs – and the process of searching for our own identity. It is our search that continues to find a contemporary way of life but at the same time holds on to some of our valuable traditions. This is again just similar to the search for new musical expression. A clear example is the fusion between old and new poetry and traditional/folk Iranian scales with rock, and blues in Mohsen Namjoo’s work.

Zirzamin: How did you go about finding the artists?

Abedian: I used to be around musicians even before this film. My family, even though relatively traditional, was very involved in theatre and music. I used to go to concerts (underground and public ones) in Iran. I had made friends on the classical and traditional music scenes and heard the music of musicians such as Arash Mitooyi long ago. But after I heard the album “Nahale Heyrat” by O-Hum, I slowly got to know the alternative musicians. It took a long time until a strong connection was made between us, a mutual trust. I met with many musicians in Tehran, was in their rehearsals, spent much time to understand and now some of them are my great friends. You can see and feel this in the film. As much as I’m close to those musicians, the viewer also gets close to them, and this has made the documentary personal and intimate. It is easier said that done though (laughs). Because it is not easy to work with musicians, they like to be shown at their best and they have their own moods and unique characteristics.

Zirzamin: Did you receive any funding from anywhere? What about permission from the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance?

Abedian: No, not a single cent. “Not An Illusion” was produced and made with my very limited personal finances. My friends, family as well as many musicians contributed to “Not An Illusion” in one way or another during those years. I had to borrow money and take other jobs in between to make the movie – this was a tough period for me for this reason. Christopher Hird, my mentor at The Hospital Club and also the Associate producer of the film, did support the movie a lot. And I must say that I am lucky to have met with Michael Hudecek who was very interested in this story and the film. His contribution, understanding and patience in some very difficult conditions was great and admirable. All these personal and intellectual supports made it possible for me to carry on and complete the movie.

Frankly, I think the issue of having or not having permission is irrelevant. The permission is not a really clear matter in our country. And when a project has been completed what difference does it make anyway? I’m not really keen in presenting the movie by saying ‘Oh I did not have any permission. They don’t permit us to work anyway. They did limit us and it was dangerous. As a woman such and such happened and etc [sic]”.  These are just known facts and repetition.

Film making is hard no matter where you do it. And for public places, you always need some sort of permission wherever you go in the world. In Iran, getting permission from the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance is hard, but it also depends on your relationships, connections and financial status. I must say in this regard we are treated like children and are all the time told to do or not to do certain things. It’s very frustrating. Sometimes one project has permission but you won’t be allowed to shoot due to various other things. Sometimes one artist has no permission but makes it with the support of some of the authorities anyway. The permission has become an excuse. You can see that some average films get much more attention than what they deserve outside of Iran just because the film maker says that they did not have permission. We do not even know that for sure (whether the director had permission or not).

Zirzamin: Very interesting. It is quite amazing that you spent six years on the movie. It’s a very long time and I admire your perseverance. What went through your life during these six years?

Abedian: Oh….a lot of things happened. Too much in fact. I think too many things happen for Iranians in a short period of time if you would to compare Iranians to other nations (e.g. Europeans or Americans).  In my life, I can say that strange, unique, horrible and fantastic things happened during those years. I feel I grew and developed with the film. I met many great people. Also I was faced with and was right in the middle of many crazy, unbelievable and unfair issues (personally or professionally). Had some very rough period of time and worked under some harsh situations.

Zirzamin: The movie must put the main character in a very difficult situation. Has this been seen yet?

Abedian: Why do you say this? You sound so sure! But in Iran nothing is certain. And this is one of the points of “Not An Illusion”. I don’t see why the movie must put the main character or anyone in the film in a very difficult situation. Many things are different than how they are reflected in the media. I am not saying better or worse but simply different. As I said, it is a human story and very fairly made. Also it is a fact that there is no support for making music, even traditional musicians are facing hardship. There is no support for making music or developing the young talents. Parts of our society still believe women’s voices shouldn’t be heard in public. The musical instruments are not shown on our national TV channels. It already is very difficult. What more do you expect? Still everyone in “Not An Illusion” express themselves and their ideas or issues respectfully.

Zirzamin: In your open letter to Ghobadi, you called it a copy of your movie. Can you please elaborate on this.

Abedian: Yes, true. The main storyline of “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” is of that musician, one female who wants to perform. She needs to have a band, she gets invited to have a concert abroad but this concert doesn’t happen at the end. Through the journey we get to see the alternative music scenes, Tehran, Iranian society and the day-to-day lives of the people. This is the story line of my documentary “Not An Illusion”. The concept and the structure of “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” is the same as mine. The essential story line – trying to get a band a booked overseas – is the same as mine. The documentary style, including some crazy montage sequences of Tehran, is the same as mine. The shooting and editing style – the low key lighting, the camera angles, the documentary editing technique – is the same as mine. Some of the characters in his film are very similar to mine. Some scenes are virtually the same as in my film. Some scenes and dialogue are directly taken from those in “Not An Illusion”.

My cameraman on “Not An Illusion”was Turaj  Aslani. We started to work on the film in summer 2003 after many discussions which went on through the years too. I filmed on and off from 2003 to late 2007 with Turaj Aslani – but shot also parts of the film myself up to spring 2008. I put together and edited some scenes and the worked on the rough structure of the film with Rouhollah Rezaie in Tehran in a home studio.  Following this, in 2007, I did some more filming in London and in Tehran with Turaj Aslani and finished most of the filming in the second half of 2007. During 2005 and 2006 Turaj and I viewed the material, a rough cut of the film and a 4 Min’s trailer.  In 2007 I showed him a music video style trailer edited by Bardia Sambourakchi the Iranian – Austrian editor in Vienna.

Then in the summer of 2008, I heard that Bahman Ghobadi was going to make a docudrama about alternative musicians and women singers in Tehran, using actors and real musicians on the alternative music scene – and that his cameraman was to be Turaj Aslani. Mr Ghobadi sent me a message via Turaj Aslani, who came to see me at my home, saying that he wanted to see my current cut of “Not An Illusion”, which at the time I was preparing with my editor Rouhollah Rezaie in Tehran to take to Vienna so that Michael Hudecek could upervise the final editing and the last stage of post production of the film. Turaj Aslani told me that they wanted to see the content of the film, especially montage sequences of Tehran which we had shot and I edited with the lyrics and the music of the musicians to and the mood and atmosphere of the film, with some of the locations.

I agreed to meet Mr. Ghobadi but he never followed up on his first invitation. Soon after, Mr. Ghobadi started making his movie.  There is no doubt that Mr. Ghobadi started his film after I had substantially finished mine as in interviews and in Q&As at screenings and his interviews he has said that his film was made in 17 days and that some of the script was improvised on the location.

I am a struggling filmmaker; Mr Ghobadi is a successful film maker. In taking my idea and work and six years of my struggle to help him advance his international reputation, he has illustrated that even among those who say they care for social issues, men believe they can do what they like. He has not replied to my letter published in Persian. Instead, I have been attacked in the Iranian media (letters published in Persian) by Mr Ghobadi’s assistant for daring as “an unknown woman” and ”unknown filmmaker” to criticize him, and have been accused of being a “liar”, seeking to get publicity on the back of Mr Ghobadi’s reputation and been told to keep my criticism private by taking to “Court in Iran” or  “The House of Cinema” in Iran for adjudication.

Zirzamin: I can’t really comment on the technicalities that you are mentioning. But after watching “Not An Illusion” I need to reflect on what you are saying here. It is a bit difficult to understand how someone would have made a movie about the indie rock musicians and not get the same type of story as “Not An Illusion” and “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats”. I mean everybody in Iran is trying to setup a band, play in venues and maybe one day leave. Everybody has difficulty releasing works. Also “Not An Illusion” is a true documentary which is following the artist for six years. Many things happen during this time, which include setting up bands, split of bands, and oversea opportunities. So the story line is given for everybody who wants to make such a movie. Or even the montage sequences of Tehran. Don’t you think so?

Abedian: I am not quite clear on your question. When talking about a film, the technicalities cannot be ignored – I mean what that movie is made of and how it tells a story i.e. the structure, the style of filming and editing, the camera angles, the use of sound or the cinematic elements used in that film for example. But sure, any film about music in Tehran may have similarities to one other because of the subject and the location. However there are many other films which tackle the issue of music and alternative musicians in Iran (e.g. Flying Misters, Dizpame 10, Sound of Silence, The Second Note) but none with so much similarities (to Not An Illusion). Besides, it is not the case that everybody is trying to set up a band in Iran: there are musicians who already have a band, and there are those who work solo. Not everybody gets invited to a foreign festival for a concert and their concert gets canceled. Also the story line is not just there for everyone to pick it up.

I can give you a full break down of the similarities between “Not An Illusion” and “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats”, but I think for the purpose of this interview the following could be enough:

1. In “Not An Illusion”, there is a scene when Sara and her mother where they are singing a Persian traditional/folk song while her mother is playing the tonbak (Iranian percussion). In “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” two women do the same, similarly shot, one of which is playing the Daf (Iranian percussion).

2. In “Not An Illusion”, Sara and the Piccolo band are in a studio rehearsing and the electricity goes off in the middle of the rehearsal. The same concept can be seen “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” when the musicians are rehearsing and the electricity goes off.

3. In the same scene in “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” where the musicians are rehearsing, you can see that the drummer looks just too similar to the drummer of Piccolo for example. In their rehearsal room similar elements are shown i.e. a yellow material hanging on the wall and a Persian rug on another wall. This is just similar to the real rehearsal room of Piccolo band.

4. The use of roof tops in both films is another example. Piccolo’s rehearsal room is on the top floor of a building and there are shots of the roof top and views of Tehran – as Milad the guitarist also lived on the roof top of his parents’ house – and then most importantly, Sara had fallen from a roof top, and for the concept and visual reasons it was important to have these scenes. Similar shots and concept are used in “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” too.

5. In “Not An Illusion”, there is a scene in Blanket Studio, one of the oldest home
studios in downtown Tehran, walls are covered with egg boxes it had a very unique atmosphere. Same place is reconstructed in “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats”. Some of the shots are identical. If you see my rough cut, it is even more apparent.

6. Montage sequences and shots of Tehran, cut with the music of the musicians, in “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” where Hichkas is singing his track “Ekhtelaf”: almost all the shots are taken from “Not An Illusion”, reconstructed and edited to convey the same feeling i.e. lives of ordinary people in Tehran, the traffic, drugs, traditional look of men and women, young people and women, and the contradictions that exist in this huge city tight down to some identical locations.

7. In “Not An Illusion”, the filmmaker/narrator takes the viewer to the different alternative music scenes and parts of Tehran, shots of Tehran from the car window – she tries to help the musician for a concert outside of Iran where they are invited to a festival in Europe, she goes to see a clergy, she says in one part that she was in London before. In “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” the main character (known as Nader) is a movie lover, cares for musicians, takes the musicians and viewer to the different music scenes and different parts of Tehran, by motorbike!  He tries to help them for a concert outside of Iran, he says he was in London before too, and there is a scene with him and a clergy man too. In my rough cut the narration was in English and a short part in Fasri. Nader speaks Persian but has some English too at some point in the film.

8. In the opening of “Not An Illusion”, the director is recording her voice and soon after (in my original rough cut and not in the final cut) she explains about herself and her love for music and etc. In “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats” also in the beginning, the director is recording his voice in a studio.

9. In “Nobody Knows About Persian Cats”, the two musician in the kitchen, the scene where the girl prepares the food looks very similar to the scene of Sara and her brother in the kitchen as Sara is preparing food.

10. Shervin Najafian in both films – there is a scene of teaching music in both films and girls singing. And even some cinematic elements such as usage of the out-of-focus shots of a girl singing in a studio, the shot of the bird cage, the cables in the street, the shot of dried water stream, and many more.

Zirzamin: If you still think that Mr. Ghobadi has stolen a lot of your material, from a legal perspective what have you done so far? Is there anything you can do actually?

Abedian: The copyright law in Iran was set up in 1960`s: it is not up to date with the international copyright law. And whatever vague law that exists is not enforced. I must say this situation reminds me of the situation of those people whose vote was stolen in June 2009. They complained peacefully but they were ignored and disrespected by those in the power and called dust and dried leaves, and they were told to go to court to prove otherwise. I’ve been attacked in the Iranian media. I am told to go to the court in Iran where the situations we face in our court are crazy, rights of people are ignored all the time, and people can be spending long years for much simpler matters of abuse: the lawyers are not able to work freely and the law is not practiced in many areas, that is clear. Also I am an independent film maker and cannot afford to embark on an expensive law suit.

Zirzamin: I found it quite interesting to see the transformation of the main character Sara from being solely rock to indie rock and then eventually turning to traditional music after being introduced to Mr. Namjoo. Having been in that environment and having seen the transformations, where do you think the Iranian alternative scene is heading? This is a question that I ask myself and many people and I am keen in hearing your thoughts on it as well.

Abedian: I think our alternative music will develop much more in the coming years and will find its own place inside and outside of Iran, especially if we get organized with publicity, distribution, and also with Iranian musicians who work with musicians of other cultures and countries, then it will be taken more seriously and can become international.

It might take a long time, but it’s with the new technology that our voice and music will be heard more and more. I think despite all the darkness, it is a great period because just like in our music, as a nation and because of our young population, we are moving forward and developing slowly but surely.

Zirzamin: Torang, thanks for giving us your time.

Abedian: Many thanks for your interest and attention.

General information:

“Not An Illusion” will have several special screening in Europe and in USA. For more
information a bout the director and the film, visit www.notanillusion.com

And www.torangabedian.com

Source: ZIRZAMIN